Thrasymachus: The Metaphysical Ruler vs Ruled Distinction

Socrates Rulers are fallible argument

1. Fallible means to make a mistake, i.e. people are mistaken about what they really want.

2. People are fallible

3. Rulers are people

4. Therefore rulers are fallible

5. Because rulers are fallible sometimes the ruled need to do what is opposite to what the rulers tell them to do as the ruler is a mistake.

Thrasymachus will argue that no, in the political realm, there is no such thing as just people. For Thrasymachus if you are a ruler you are strong, knowledgeable and have the ability to command other people, if you are

So how will Thrasymachus deal with this argument?

Thrasymachus is going to have issues with 2., 3. and 4.

In regards to [1] I don’t believe Thrasymachus will have any issue with this statement.

I also believe that Thrasymachus will accept [2] however he would reject this statement in the realm of the political as the political for Thrasymachus seems to have a clear ruler vs ruled distinction. This for Thrasymachus is not a simple distinction but conveys strength, ability and knowledge to the rulers and Naivety, Honesty and foolishness to the ruled.

Thrasymachus would accept [3] and would reject [4] as he says in a passage rulers by definition do not make a mistake, it is their knowledge that fails them.

1. Fallible means to make a mistake, i.e. people are mistaken about what they really want.

2. People are fallible

3. Rulers are people

4. Therefore rulers are fallible [No they are not, if one calls them Rulers then they are Rulers and don’t make mistakes at all]

5. Because rulers are fallible sometimes the ruled need to do what is opposite to what the rulers tell them to do as the ruler is a mistake.

The Ruler Vs Ruled distinction matters argument

1. Politics is one of the most important domains in human life.

2. In politics, there is a distinction between the ruled and rulers

3. The rulers govern and the ruled are governed

4. When it comes to very important decisions it is the rulers who make these not the ruled

5. What matters in life are these important decisions

6. There In politics what really matters is the Rulers, not the ruled.

7. As a result, there is no such thing as ‘People’ in politics. What really matters in politics is who makes the decisions which are the rulers.

What it Means to be a Ruler argument

1. If one is strong and smart they normally are better than other people

2. people who are better than other people normally reach higher positions of power

3. people in security in high positions of people have great influence and are political

4. if you have great influence and are political you are part of the political elite

5. to get into the political elite means

Against Humility and Weakness argument

1. Humility is being honest about the level of skills you have

2. Humility can be perceived as a weakness

3. If you are perceived to lack the ability to know what you are doing you will show weakness.

4. In politics weakness is a bad sign,

5. Because weak, innocent, honesty, naive people in political ruling classes don’t last, as they are characteristics of the people who are ruled

6. there fore in Politics, one must do everything to not show weakness.

7. What matters most is power, not Truth

The Self-interest of Governments Argument

All Governments want to be strong and stay in power

The best way to stay strong and in power is to install rules that benefit themselves

When you tell someone they are doing something to be Just compared to telling them someone is doing this to have power over them, they are much more likely to do it as it makes them feel good and virtuous

most people want to be virtuous and good

The most effective way to stay in power is to appeal to people’s desires to feel good and virtuous

The best way to do this is to govern them in the name of called Justice

Because Justice is a way for people to accept your rule

All Justice is [in reality] is the advantage of the stronger [the government]

Perspectivism

People who can see the reality should be in power

Ones perspective has a massive impact on how they see the world.

Rulers because they have the perspective of seeing the reality of the world have the knowledge

The Ruled because they ruled belive in the appearance of convention can not see the reality

Particularly as knowers, let us not be ungrateful toward such resolute reversals of the familiar perspectives and valuations with which the spirit has raged against itself all too long… : to see differently in this way for once, to want to see differently, is no small discipline and preparation of the intellect for its future “objectivity”—the latter understood not as “disinterested contemplation” (which is a non-concept and absurdity), but rather as the capacity to have one’s Pro and Contra in one’s power, and to shift them in and out, so that one knows how to make precisely the difference in perspectives and affective interpretations useful for knowledge. (GM III, 12)

Plenonectic Ruler argument

Getting what you want is good

Rulers rule to what they want

Why it is the Ruled that create all the art and beauty

Poor people

Knowledge argument